Tuesday, January 17, 2006


Sarah, over at Trying to Grok, posted a reaction to a Cold Fury post. Of course I had to lay my two cents in the comments. As always they are first draft, not thought out, and are a bit angry this time.
"America, love my vision of it or leave it, eh? Sorry, that isn't how democracy works..."

Pericles, one other way in which democracy isn't supposed to work is when a minority forces their "vision" of America on the majority through nebulous legal concepts such as The Constitution being a "living" document whose meaning changes based not on those who wrote it but on what those charged to interpret it wish it to mean. The truth is that there are countries that closer match your idea of a better country but none match the idea of a better country held by the majority here (especially conservatives, military and veterans) the way the US does.

Certainly at some point when leftists are able to convice the majority of the population that their views are the right ones you'll get an America made the way you want it, but it will no longer be America. It'll be a country named America, but one that no longer resembles the dream of The Founding Fathers, and which no longer espouses the ideals and values that constitute what America is.

Sillyman, you're argument is based on the false notion that being pro-healthcare is the same as being pro-universal socialized healthcare. You're argument on gun control is equally false in that some gun control is not the same as banning firearms. The aim of the left is not common sense control and education of firearms, but rather to remove firearms from the hands of the common man.

Frankly I'm with Sarah on this. If your values diverge so far from the values that this country represent, then why bother to stay here? Are leftists such sadist that they wish everyone who believes in freedom and liberty the pain of living in yet another failed socialist utopia? Are they simply religious extremist evangelists bent on forcing everyone to worship at the shrine of Marx?

We know it's not because they prefer to live in a country that espouses their values since those countries already exist and would embrace them and their inherent anti-Americanism.

Oh, and let's nip this one before someone poser tries to make an issue of it. If you espouse ideas and values that are contrary to those that define America, then you are anti-American despite your heated denials. Being against something makes you "anti" that thing. Such as me being anti-communist or anti-Jihadist.

Incidentally, despite the knee-jerk reaction of the leftists, nowhere does Sarah say "America, love it or leave it," though the opinion of that old bumper sticker is just as valid an opinion as the anti-Military "bakesale for bombers" one I've seen. Well, actually it's more valid since it has a logical basis whereas the bakesale bumper sticker is based on idiotic aunt-Nellism that is self-destructive and delusional.

Mr. Silly, "Sarah's opinion included saying that people who disagree should leave the country. There is ample reason to criticize this immature view."

No she didn't. She pointed out that countries that fit the vision of liberals and the far left already exist, but countries that fit the vision of the center and center-right exist singularly as the United States of America. No country, least of all America, fit the vision of the far right.

"Pretending people really followed your advice, when your country has been depopulated by greater than 50%, do you really think you would be better off?"

I doubt it would be greater than 50%. The left does not make up a majority of the country. Center and right make up a greater portion of the country than the left, and the center is more rightwing than it is usually portrayed. Even a large number of ardent Democrats are too far right to be left. From Union supporters who use can't stand the left, to Black Baptists who are ardently anti-Abortion, pro-traditional family, and pro-Christian. Both groups tend to be ardent Democrats, but their support is based on very narrow goals of the Democrat party, and they support more of the Republican platform. However, in the words of my ardent Democrat in-laws, "I'll be damned before I vote Republican." Of course they are also disgusted by homosexuality, abortion, socialized anything, mixed race marriages, gay marriage, illegal immigration, and a host of other pets of the Democrats. Theirs is a strange point of view held by quite a number of people I've met in my blue-collared life.

Sarah is a strong woman and doesn't need me jumping to her defense even though I'm obnoxious where she is shy, abrasive where she is kind and tolerant, and brutally honest where she is politely honest. Though we both get fed up, I have less patience than she.

Update: Sarah posted an addendum, and Mr. Silly's comments are worth reading.

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